The White House on Friday asked Congress for nearly $106 billion to fund ambitious plans for Ukraine, Israel and U.S. border security, but offered no strategy for securing the money from a broken Congress.
  • bob@lemmy.ml
    747·
    9 months ago

    Can’t forgive student debt can’t pay for healthcare yet we can have war, ffs

  • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
    406·
    9 months ago

    “defense” industry lapdogs absolutely drooling at the steak Genocide Joe’s dangling over their heads

  • neglector0669@lemmy.ml
    4110·
    9 months ago

    While I’m openly in favor of supporting Ukraine, it’s important to note that the vast majority of this type of military aid is provided in kind.

    So really, it’s a proposal to give US Defense contractors $100b+ to replenish and restock the DOD with new kit and munitions for the old kit and munitions that we’re providing to Ukraine. Which then get into the use accounting tricks e.g. depreciation values, etc.

    The annual military aid to Israel is a little different, it’s more like a loss leader coupon: give Israel money that they have to spend with US Defense contractors, which then also incentivizes them spending their own budget on complementary systems that can be integrated with those systems, munitions, support contracts, etc.

    Although in this case, I believe it’s primarily munitions and other kit that the DOD already has in warehouses.

    This is oversimplified, but I just see these headline figures always being confused for pallets of cash.

    • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
      3711·
      9 months ago

      I don’t live in Ukraine. I need healthcare now. Let Blackrock and Vanguard fund Ukraine.

      • UniquesNotUseful@lemmy.world
        1223·
        9 months ago

        Did you have healthcare before Russia invaded Ukraine and started murdering babies? Was it even on the cards?

        It’s not an economic factor either. US health costs are much higher than other developed nations. It spends 17% of GDP, almost double of Germany (next highest).

        Spending is without the positive outcomes. Infant mortality of 5.4 deaths per 1,000 live births (17,000 extra dead babies a year Vs an average.rate), for context you are worse than Russia with 4.9 but better tha Chile 5.9). 23.8 maternal deaths per 100,000 births being 3 times higher than most wealthy nations.

        The economic considerations are that you have a lot of heath businesses. If you socialised medicine and reduced spend, you may improve health outcomes but how would they pay for the very nice buildings they have loans for?

        Finally, US doesn’t want universal healthcare as a society. Whilst they may be financially wrecked by costs and live shorter more painful lives, that is far preferential than seeing the low income family get the same free cancer treatment for their child.

        • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
          182·
          9 months ago

          Nice rhetoric. I’ve wanted healthcare since 2009, when the “Yes we can” guy didn’t. Your talking points have been disproven and Americans polled overwhelmingly want nationalized healthcare. Source. You provided no source because you pulled it out of your actuarial ass.

        • limonfiesta@lemmy.worldEnglish
          112·
          9 months ago

          Did you have healthcare before Russia invaded Ukraine

          Yes, I did until they sent me a letter informing me that they were booting me off my Medicare for All plan and converting it into artillery shells for the Kherson offensive.

      • neglector0669@lemmy.ml
        823·
        9 months ago

        We aren’t getting it eitherway, so in the meantime, at least some of our weapons are being used to defend against an imperial power, instead of to advance one.

        • regul@lemm.ee
          131·
          9 months ago

          You think the US isn’t funding Ukraine to advance its own imperial interests?

          You truly think we’re just doing it because we just love “democracy” so much, or something like that?

          Buddy, an imperial power is winning either way.

        • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
          121·
          9 months ago

          I don’t think the next generation is going to accept that excuse, nor should they. Enlightened Centrism is what got us to this point.

      • masquenox@lemmy.ml
        8·
        9 months ago

        If the Palestinians had received a quarter of what Ukraine has received in the last three years Israel would be no more. I certainly don’t have a problem with that.

      • neglector0669@lemmy.ml
        56·
        9 months ago

        Do I support giving arms to Israel? No, but that wasn’t the point of my post. It was an very high level explainer to head off the inevitable portrayal of this as a direct cash transfer.

    • glimse@lemmy.world
      96·
      9 months ago

      Sweet! So it’ll help the rich get richer and won’t help any of us who don’t work on the defense industry. Love it!

      • neglector0669@lemmy.ml
        126·
        9 months ago

        I’d try to explain the geostrategic and humanitarian benefits to helping one of the world’s largest bread baskets defend against imperial conquest by an mafia run gas station, or do a deeper dive into Putin’s desire to reconquer the old USSR satellite states, or the associated risks if he was successful, but I don’t think you really care to have you opinion shaped by analysis and the realities of great power poltics, so I’ma leave you be.

        • glimse@lemmy.world
          91·
          9 months ago

          I fully support giving aid to Ukraine. Just not so sure about funding the destruction of Palestine by a country with one of the world’s strongest economies

          • neglector0669@lemmy.ml
            61·
            9 months ago

            I never said I supported funding Israel’s military, I don’t. I just added that mini explainer because it’s a different method of military aid than we provide Ukraine, and the proposal is bundled together.

            • glimse@lemmy.world
              41·
              9 months ago

              Sorry, this is on me - I should have been more clear in my first reply. I just think it’s fucked up that we’re spending all this money to support genocide when “we couldn’t afford” to spend on US citizens. Defense contractors make a shit ton of money from war and the rest of us won’t have anything to show for it. Again, speaking strictly about the middle east. Russia is a significant threat to the world so I’m fine with my tax dollars are going toward stopping their bullshit.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
            12·
            8 months ago

            The US has blocked every opportunity for a negotiated peace, thereby causing tens of thousands of needless deaths, with nothing to show for it. The National Interest: How Will the Ukraine War End?

            In the early weeks of the war, peace was still possible before the unimaginable loss of life, the devastation of infrastructure, and the loss of land in Ukraine. That peace was possible three times: in talks in Belarus, in talks mediated by then-Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennet, and, most promisingly, in talks in Istanbul. In all three, the war could have been ended on terms that satisfied Ukraine. In all three, Ukraine was willing to renounce membership in NATO. And, in all three, the United States blocked the negotiations.

  • b9chomps@beehaw.org
    152·
    9 months ago

    I can understand the funds for Ukraine 100%. They are fighting a giant aggressor that has superior numbers.

    But doesn’t Israel have a pretty huge and well equipped army considering their population? Especially compared to Hamas that is a guerrilla force.

    Also the fighting is limited to a area that is fenced in by them, Egypt and the Mediterranean. What kind of new military equipment worth 14 billion would be needed?

    It’s also ironic to support a conflict with 14 billion and on the other side plan 9 billion for humanitarian aid to combat the misery needed because of it.

    • masquenox@lemmy.ml
      6·
      9 months ago

      Maintaining a settler-colonialist state in the face of people who aren’t just armed with spears takes a lot of money, I guess.

    • PupBiru@kbin.social
      2·
      9 months ago

      it’s possible that $14bn is just what’s needed to get republicans to the table to send the rest to ukraine

    • lloydsmart@discuss.tchncs.de
      22·
      9 months ago

      I broadly agree with you, but would point out that the conflict isn’t necessarily limited to Gaza. There’ve been rockets flying back and forth across the Lebanese border, sporadic violence in the West Bank, and there’s always tension over the Golan Heights. Israel could find itself fighting a multi-front war against Hamas in Gaza, Lebanon/Hezbollah in the north west, Syria in the north east and Jordan in the east.

      Not to mention Egypt aren’t exactly their best buds either, and a US warship recently intercepted missiles coming towards Israel from Houthi rebels in Yemen.

  • DagonPie@kbin.social
    102·
    9 months ago

    I wonder what a poll in the US would look like if they let the people vote on this. But its an all or nothing vote. Like we vote to give both countries aid or neither.

      • Squizzy@lemmy.world
        123·
        9 months ago

        The worst part about being pro Ukraine and pro Palestine is realising Ukraine supports Israel.

        • HuddaBudda@kbin.social
          83·
          9 months ago

          Ukraine’s funding disappeared as one of the concessions for the 45 day funding bill while republicans pick a new speaker.

          I think Zelensky is trying to play this smart because it ties something he needs (military funding) to something republicans need to support (Israel)

          Whether or not he agrees with it doesn’t matter, because as a leader this is the best move for him to get funding back.

          • PupBiru@kbin.social
            31·
            9 months ago

            100% this… words are cheap, and he needs to do everything he can for his country… supporting palestine or staying silent gets him nothing, and potentially loses quite a bit in retaliation

            it really doesn’t matter what he thinks is fair or just

  • towelie@lemmy.today
    92·
    9 months ago

    What happens when we can no longer move balances around and dish out money to maintain the global status quo

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldBEnglish
    3·
    9 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    Some Republican lawmakers have grown skeptical of the need to fund Ukraine’s war with Russia, and have threatened to halt government altogether to put an end to chronic U.S. budget deficits and fiscal spending fueled by $31.4 trillion in debt.

    “The world is watching and the American people rightly expect their leaders to come together and deliver on these priorities,” said Biden’s budget director, Shalanda Young, in a letter to acting House Speaker Patrick McHenry.

    She also told Congress of plans to submit another request for funding to deal with natural disasters, high-speed internet, child care and wild-land firefighter pay “in coming days.”

    Some $14.3 billion of Friday’s funding request for the 2024 fiscal year would be dedicated to Israel, much of it to support the country’s air and missile defense systems and other weapons purchases.

    The request includes billions to replenish the country’s military equipment, and would provide economic and security aid and support for refugees in the United States.

    “The unwavering bipartisan support for Ukraine in the United States is incredibly encouraging for all of our warriors and for our entire nation,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy wrote on Friday on social media.

    The original article contains 735 words, the summary contains 194 words. Saved 74%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.worldEnglish
    44·
    9 months ago

    Bro I’m for foreign aid but this is getting insane.

    Give me .01 percent of that and I’d be set for life. Where’s the aid for Americans?