TLDW from ChatGPT:

The video is a critique of the Debian Linux distribution’s website and its user experience, primarily focusing on the difficulties in finding and downloading the appropriate ISO images. The presenter praises Debian’s stability and community but criticizes the website’s design, stating that it’s not user-friendly, especially for new Linux users. The video highlights how the website layout, multiple clicks, and confusing file tree structure can make it challenging to locate the desired ISO images, particularly for the live installer versions. The presenter suggests that while improvements have been made, the ISO download process can still be convoluted and feels like the distribution is not encouraging new users. The overall message conveys a desire for Debian to make its ISOs more easily accessible and user-friendly.

  • BearPear@lemmy.worldOP
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    1 year ago

    I remember reading a comment on youtube on another video which mentioned that the download page is an IQ test to determine if a user is worthy of using Debian.

    The downloader page has improved after the release of bookworm

    • BearPear@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 year ago

      But seriously, the website does need a revamp.

      Look at the linux mint website, it is so clean, modern and easy to use.

    • Kabe@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It is definitely better since Bookworm, but it’s still not great.

      The default installation .iso is a netinstall that uses Debian’s creaky old installer that looks like a text-based RPG from the 1980s when compared to a modern GUI Linux installer.

      The live images, which are the best for new users because they do use a modern and user-friendly installer (Calamares) and allow pre-selection of the desktop environment, are still hidden away by needing to click through two more web pages to get to the list of isos, without any explanation of the different DEs or recommendations for new users.

      It’s like they thought to themselves “we need to make it easier for new users, but we don’t want to make it too easy”.

  • jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    They’re spot on. I had this thought last week while trying to find an ISO. It’s like it’s a state secret or something. 😆

    Fedora, OpenSuse, Arch, Gentoo, Kali, and Armbian all make it easy to find an ISO or image to get started. The free RHEL downloads are the only thing more hidden then Debian downloads.

        • TimeSquirrel@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          You gotta download it either way, netinstall or not. At least that way you can pick and choose what you actually need. Are you trying to set up a computer in the woods?

      • guillermohs9@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, but there is a point. I’m not a Linux newbie, but sometimes you can get lost looking for the iso file that includes firmware, or non-free, or certain desktop. On most distro’s pages, the big fat button leads to a direct link to the iso file and another to a torrent at most.

        • quat@lemmy.sdfeu.org
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          1 year ago

          While I do agree that the website is bad, nowadays the main iso includes non-free firmware, and it’s the same installer for all DEs.

  • liliumstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 year ago

    I always thought it was the way it is so that you can still browse it through a text-based browser. If that’s true, is there still room for improving it’s ease of use?

    • nous@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      His arguments are mostly about links to the ISO you are most likely going to want being buried down the page, or after attention drawing elements on the page or through multiple clicks through pages that suffer from these two problems. None of his criticisms are about it being mostly text based or the styling at all. So non of the improvements he suggest will affect text based browsers. So yeah, looks like there is a lot of room for improvement even if text based browsers are the primary focus.

    • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      It’s mostly the layout that’s annoying, not the web 1.0 look. (That’s actually a breath of fresh air.)

  • words_number@programming.dev
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    1 year ago

    The webaite could be nicer, but I wouldn’t call that a big problem. Plain debian is mostly used for webservers or by users with at least some linux experience. These won’t struggle that much with clicking the right link on the website.

    • nik282000@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I prefer the Debian website over most other distro’s modern look. It’s simple, like Debian.

      • Gamey@feddit.rocks
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        1 year ago

        I wouldnt call it simple and I definitely see issues with the UX from a actual usability standpoint but I don’t think it has to be modernized or should be simplified for beginners, that’s not the goal of Debian!

  • macallik@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    As someone who recently created pivoted to Debian (for 12.0) from Windows , the website is quite the headache. I consider myself tech-literate, and have been around the internet long enough where RTFM was a rite of passage, but they really are asking a lot given how many different directions the manual went. I put about 20 minutes into it along with 10-15 minutes reading up on things that were not well explained and then just YOLO’d it.

    Also if 98% of people are installing via a flash drive and 2% are doing CD Rom installs, then cater towards the 98% in your instructions. Not only is the CD ROM examples more prominent, but they also end up leading to downloading the same .iso IIRC. Not saying to do away w/ the catering to obsolete technology, but maybe shift the conversation towards terminology and wording that end users can instantly identify with.

    It really is an example of someone updating an existing process repeatedly instead of taking a step back and seeing how things have changed over time. I suppose that’s the active theme for the entire website. The website is frustrating in that aspect. Speaking from experience, I’d venture that the majority of the traffic that is received from newbies following a YT tutorial where someone spells out where to go and what to click. Looking at the referenced video, it appears that have started to slowly make changes but there’s still work to be done.

    Reading this thread though, I can see how the web dev team came to their conclusion. A solid portion of this thread are people lauding a crap website like alumni who are extolling the virtues of hazing… “it was hard for me, it should be hard for everyone” or “There should be a bit of effort required to keep out the riff raff” etc.

  • aport@programming.dev
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    1 year ago

    It would have been less effort to submit patches to clean up the website than it took to make a video whining about it

  • TCB13@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    What about instead of bitching at Debian’s website they don’t bitch about how useless is the Gnome desktop without icons and the activities view / lack of a proper dock/menu? You know real issues in Linux usability :D

  • TimeSquirrel@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Why does every distro HAVE to be “user-friendly” and bow down to the lowest common denominator? Debian is kinda known for being a bare bones OS designed for you to dig in and fuck around with. You want user friendly, there’s Mint and Ubuntu. I have no problems navigating their website, but then again I grew up in the web 1.0 world and I’m used to it.

  • djsaskdja@reddthat.com
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    1 year ago

    If you can’t figure out something as simple as how to navigate their website, you probably shouldn’t be using Debian as a distro anyway.

      • GigglyBobble@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Naive Linux users and gatekeepers.

        There’s another kind I count myself to: realistic Linux users.

        Linux can be a real alternative - if you have issues with Windows/Mac and are willing to tinker every once in a while. And you don’t mind playing AAA competitive shooters since those come with rootkits that won’t ever fly on Linux.

      • djsaskdja@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        My point was that there’s way easier versions of Linux to use than Debian. Using Debian has a learning curve associated with it that’s more difficult than simply using their website.

    • BearPear@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 year ago

      Debian has gotten so much easier to install since the release of bookworm, so I wouldn’ t be surprised more new users show interest to try it out.

      fixed typo

      • jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        If they can find the ISO to download. 😆

        Every time I download the Debian ISO there is at least 1 “Why is this so hard?” thought.

    • ominouslemon@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Or maybe if we can’t even design a website with a simple download page we can’t be surprised if people don’t use linux