looks like rendering adblockers extensions obsolete with manifest-v3 was not enough so now they try to implement DRM into the browser giving the ability to any website to refuse traffic to you if you don’t run a complaint browser ( cough…firefox )
here is an article in hacker news since i’m sure they can explain this to you better than i.
and also some github docs
Ad Blocking is cyber security
Every once in a while I help a family member or friend out with their machine and am stunned when I see the web without an adblocker. It honestly reminds me of the malicious early 2000s porn and “free downloads” sites… but it’s everywhere now, like cnn and eBay and shit. First thing I do is install Firefox and ublock origin, and mostly for their security.
Youtube has also been running basically porn ads on “for kids” youtube channels as well and my kindergarten aged niece and nephew have been exposed to that shit. Adblock is 100% cyber security AND for kids safety.
100% agree. The few times I have to turn off uBlock because it is breaking some obscure website it is always an awful experience. Auto-playing videos, ads taking up half the screen, and those annoying as fuck cookie banners. I can’t imagine using the internet without an ad/cookie blocker. I accidentally turned it off on Lemmy for a while and it was the only site that I didn’t immediately notice.
It’s always nice when you look at uBlock Origin and it says
connected: 1 out of 119/19 right here on lemmy.ca
Huh? When I visit lemmy.ca, it also shows me 1/1
Opening the debug console shows that it connects to other lemmies, like the originating one here, lemmy.dbzer0.com.
Yeah okay, that makes sense. Federated network with dozens of different servers and all that
I said this in another thread, but a lot of the internet is unusable without uBlock Origin IMO.
It’s the shadowy lands run by bots that only unsuspecting bots go to.
You remember browser toolbars? People would have 3 of them at once, having no clue where they got it from nor how to remove it.
Good times.and am stunned when I see the web without an adblocker.
True, True, it’s damn near unusable. You take it for granted what a job your blocker is doing for you.
I installed uBlock Origin on clients computers when I worked at Geek Squad, even.
It kinda makes sense. All the people who know better already use an ad blocker so they don’t know what it’s really like and all the people who don’t know to use an ad blocker don’t know any better and that’s just what the internet looks like.
The FBI recommends using an ad blocker: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221
Malvertising (a portmanteau of “malicious software (malware) advertising”) is the use of online advertising to spread malware.
It typically involves injecting malicious or malware-laden advertisements into legitimate online advertising networks and webpages.
Because advertising content can be inserted into high-profile and reputable websites, malvertising provides malefactors an opportunity to push their attacks to web users who might not otherwise see the ads, due to firewalls, more safety precautions, or the like.
Malvertising is “attractive to attackers because they ‘can be easily spread across a large number of legitimate websites without directly compromising those websites’.”Just as noscript and pop-up/new tab blockers are.
A better quote
We need more browser options, not just Firefox and 20 versions of chrome.
If you have the funds, donate to Mozilla. They’re not only the main developers of the only major competing browser engine, but also do a lot of other good work. You can hope for others, but with Firefox only having single-digit usage share it needs all the help it can get.
This. I see a lot of talk about Firefox forks on Lemmy but at the end of the day we need Mozilla to to survive for Firefox and their forks to continue
You can’t legally donate to Firefox, as it is developed by a Corp (Mozilla Corp.). Donations go to Mozilla Foundation, which does… other things with you money. In other words, your money don’t go towards FF development.
So, if you donate thinking that your money helps Firefox development, you’re doing it wrong.
To be fair, there are about 20 versions of Firefox too. It’s just that most of them aren’t there to Hoover up ad revenue.
I completely agree, but don’t forget that WebKit exists too on Mac and Linux with about the same market share as Firefox (at least based on w3school’s stats). Chrome/Blink dominate but all hope is not lost and there are more options, they’re just small. I think focusing on embracing Firefox/Gecko as it has so much momentum and community already is the most productive way forward though
The only reason WebKit has any market share left is because iOS/iPadOS forces it on their users even if you try to use other browser
Nope. I’ve used GNOME web before, and others as well.
A good project to support would be the Ladybird.
They don’t even have builds. How can we support tools the bulk of users can’t easily implement or recommend non technical people to try?
You can support by joining the project and helping them to fix issues. It’s a young project, but they’ve been progressing really fast. Andreas Kling is one of the original developers of Safari, and in the past years he’s been creating his own operating system (Serenity OS) and formed a team who’ve been doing their own JavaScript engine, web browser and a programming language together with the OS. It’s a really fascinating story and I give all the respect for them for doing this. This is the work we have to do if we want to beat Google from taking the internet. It’s us who need to step up and start fixing the internet.
https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/
I don’t disagree with you on alternatives but again it’s challenging for the technical folks amongst our peer groups to help adoption of an alternative if we can’t provide places for the folks we support to download the alternative and try it
There’s no way for any of my family or friends to understand how to build their own browser, let alone setup a WSL2 environment to make it work. Their eyes are going to glaze over at the thought then they’re going to go download something else.
Nah that’s more of a spoiler vote. You need one large competitor to Chrime, not a bunch of small ones that can get wiped out
Google basically made it so that it takes a large company to compete with all the “”“web features”“” that they have, so good luck with that.
Idk about on Windows & macOS, but there are a lot of other options not based on Gecko (Firefox) or Blink (Chromium). Downside is that they don’t have as many features or plugin support.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/List_of_applications#Web_browsers
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I will happily stop visiting any website that demands I use an approved browser.
Well, those of us who care all say that but I for one have to access government and banking websites in several countries, if they implement this I have no choice. This abomination must be prevented in the first place.
You can use Chrome for those websites if they completely break, and Firefox for everything else.
Banks and government websites don’t tend to have adverts.
Do you require ad blockers with these? This use case sounds like the intention of the feature, not like the perversion we’re headed for now.
We can criticize the EU, but they would not allow or force people to install Chrome in order to access government web sites.
You won’t have a choice if it’s a bank or your job. This is the truly insidious thing, if enough important websites start demanding the standard, you might just end up forcing yourself off of the internet with that attitude
You won’t have a choice if it’s a bank
Time to find a new bank.
your job
I’m self employed so I aint worried about that.
… Until all the sites you absolutely need to use in order to *function in society *require approved devices with proper tracking.
So you fight it now by switching away from Google as much as you can.
Google Chrome (v42.12.0183, MULTi5) [FitGirl Repack]
It’s going to be very annoying to find new cracks every week
Just google it.
Excuse me but would you happen to have the link to the 100% real ONE LINK no-fake MegaUpload version?
No! LOL! Who still uses direct links? Get with the times man. The kids these days are torrenting. (they’re not zooming around in Elden Ring, it’s just a piracy term)
–>since everyone is confused about this i’m gonna try to explain as best as i could and also clearing some misconceptions:
1# why this is such a big deal ?
if this gets implemented AND it gets widely adopted websites now can refuse to give you content if you are running a non complied browser, remember those website that say “oh you are using an ad blocker so disable it to access our site” they can detect this by various methods but ultimately all of them rely on running a JavaScript into your browser. which you guessed it, its easy to modify and tamper with manually or using extensions
now what WEI-API does is that it can verify the integrity of the web page ( JavaScript/HTML/CSS has not been modified ) and even tell the website what extensions - ad blocker detected no content for you - you are using and what browser you are using - firefox or brave detected no content for you - and do not be fooled into thinking that this can be spoofed. and website owners who think that they are running a business not a charity will implement this.
2#will using firefox save me?
if this gets widely adopted and you inevitably encounter a website that require this ( for your job ,school or your bank ) you have no choice but to use chrome just like when your banking apps refuse to work because your phone is rooted which means that SAFETY-NET is broken
3#why this is a threat to begin with?
this is only viable if the web adopt it so why bother?, well guess what google is famous for making its services very easy to integrate and well documented just look on how easy it is to integrate google analytics and google adsense* into websites and how many of them use it in the internet.
4#what can we do to prevent this?
this is my personal opinion but i think we simply can’t, this not like the reddit incident were very large portion of the user base was upset most people don’t know/care/give-a-fuck about web technologies and how they work.
#and Finally “but google said they don’t plan to use this to fingerprint you (Device ID) or track your browser history or interfere with the work of extensions”
do you really believe that a company like google whose bread and butter is advertising would not make it easier for themselves, a company who has been exposed time and time again for lying and having ulterior motives ( you don’t need to look far just look into what manifest-v3 did )
remember those website that say “oh you are using an ad blocker so disable it to access our site”
I can easily imagine this not being a necessary, anymore. Just let the website using this WEI API automatically disable all browser extensions on a WEI-enabled site. Why not, after all? Why should you dictate the traffic you receive on your computer? Why should you own anything?
Stop using Google products I don’t know how else to fucking say it.
Chrome -> Firefox Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.
helped with formatting:
Chrome -> Firefox
Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options
Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office
YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse
Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc
Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.
And I agree for sure. In order I use firefox (and brave sometimes), Proton Drive, Apple Productivity suite (pages, numbers etc), and either startpage or qwant, and proton mail. I do still use use YouTube Premium, but the point is Google doesn’t need to have its fingers in every aspect of my digital life.
While I get your spirit… Dropbox belongs to google too 😂 they are everywhere! Worse than the plague.
For many people, Google controls the entire network stack from their ISP, router, OS, DNS, their browser, all the way down to the platform hosting the content they watch.
Google has captured such a wide part of the Internet that any changes they make will have at least a moderate effect on our lives. Even if we don’t use any Google services.
The only thing that can stop them is probably the EU at this point. And I’m sure Google has a plan for that.
They can’t have a plan for that. They have two options: conform or leave EU.
lol, just
become the governmentpay the EU.EU is widely adopting the policy of fining by a percentage of global revenue which is what hurts even the largest companies, precisely to avoid “just pay the EU”.
And what glorious percentage is that? 25% 30%? 35% And on what schedule? Weekly? Daily?
i didn’t write the quoted list, just helped the OP with his formatting. I use proton drive, not dropbox.
I’m not sure LibreOffice is a drop-in replacement for Google Docs if you need sharing, collaboration and built-in version control.
Yes, something like collabora would be a better fit, although I never managed to get an actual instance of the thing running.
Works quite well through nextcloud IME :)
Well I tried this and… I just can’t get to run properly. Tried docker, AIO, separate installs :(
I found that quite easy, for once: I have a bare NC instance and I installed 2 add-ons (the integration bits and the CODE server that IIRC drops an appimage of the actual collabora server). Unless you have hundreds of users, that’s about as much admin as you need :)
I’ll give it another try then, thanks !
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FYI, you need two new lines (hit Enter twice) to actually get a new line in Lemmy.
Two new lines One new line.
Is there a reason behind this?
Markdown treats single newline breaks as being a line wrap in a long text flow
It’s standard markdown afaik. Two new lines creates a new paragraphs, two spaces and one new line creates just a new line.
Because Reddit does it? 🤷♀️
Nah its part of the markdown specification
That’s actually a bit of a relief to learn. I didn’t want to believe it was simply because Lemmy was trying to copy Reddit, but I just didn’t know enough to see any other reason.
Question, I use Google docs a lot cause I like the sync and it’s convenient when I write something like a book on my computer and then can add more on my phone and it syncs. Does Apache open office do that? I would like to switch if all this chrome stuff is bad but I use all of it all the time
I generally would recommend Libreoffice over AOO but not sure about cloud sync options
What’s the replacement for Android?
Linux, but that’s not a viable option. I would use degoogled Android OSs. GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, e/os, and LineageOS are some of the popular ones.
Look, it’s an unpopular opinion and many will disagree with me, but while Apple does certain things to restrict you from customizing your experience, they’re doing far less to destroy the open Internet than Google. So if you need a fully featured OS (which degoogled custom Android ROMs might not be, if you need banking for an example), it’s still an alternative for now, until Linux mobile experience gets better.
On iOS, there’s no browser extensions (for e.g. ad blocking), no alternative browsers, and no FOSS apps of any kind. That platform is extremely hostile to the ideals of computing freedom.
Wait. Sync offers file storage? I thought it was just to sync up your Firefox sessions across multiple devices.
Or am I confusing services with similar names?
I think they’re referring to the storage service at sync.com, not Firefox Sync.
Correct
How do you like it? Would you prefer it over dropbox, or not really?
I prefer it to drop box, it’s a better service and I believe not owned by Google like drop box it
I like brave search because it uses its own index
Brave has done too many shady bullshit things and has thus completely lost my support and interest. I do not recommend them.
Yet another vitally important front in the war on general purpose computing (it’s a short and important read imo)
Fuck Google, and fuck DRM.
Thank you for that read. That honestly gave me a lot more perspective than I had, and that speech was quoted from over a decade ago!? The more I know, the more I realize how much I don’t know… but hot damn. I know it’s been a fight, but “a war” really does seem more apt
What a read, wow. Thanks for sharing!
How is the worlds biggest ad distributor also the worlds biggest browser maker without it being an anti-trust violation?
Because it is legal in the US to bribe politicians and this company has a lot of money
Also doesn’t help that half the people supposedly in charge of cracking down on this kind of thing in the US belong in an old folks home. Most of them don’t even comprehend the issue.
I’m surprised I haven’t heard any pushback on it from the EU though.
Well anti-trust would get in the way of profits, you see
Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots.
Won’t you think of the poor poor ad companies?
Half the internet now seems to be bots creating content purely for the enjoyment of other bots. Typing any kind of difficult question into a search engine will now have you dodging a minefield of AI generated articles, none of which contain any useful information other than what they’ve scraped from other AI generated pages.
Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain
Do they actually, or is that just all they have to visit anymore? Would users not be happier visiting a bunch of cheap geocities pages with blink tags instead of tracking cookies?
It’s all about how far we can push the user and how much the user is willing to pay. Gotta squeeze and close all avenues of escape, so they tolerate some more.
Unfortunately all the masses want is maximum ease of use, full stop. Just look at the Reddit exiles -
“Welcome to Lemmy, pick a server any server be a winner”
“WTF IS THIS NERD SHIT SIGNUP TOOK MORE THAN ONE ACTION ON MY PART RIP LEMMY LONG LIVE REDDIT IS LEMME JUST REDDIT YET NO FUUUUUUUUU”
Sadly you’re right. Every migration from phpBB to Digg to Reddit filtered the people who made a minimum effort to understand the platforms, and now we have this.
And I remember all the people who were not programmers, and could still setup and administrate their own phpBB…
Remember when browsers just browsed…I really want to push the What’s Cool! button
Holy cow im getting nostalgia and I wasn’t even alive when Netscape was a thing, I think…
Fuck I’m old.
Also it’s not kinda drm, it is drm. Like fr
yeah i used “kinda” to avoid the infamous :
well AcutUaLly…
Then you got “well actually’d” for it.
The internet is an unforgiving place.
This is exactly why everyone should use fully idenpendted browser like Firefox
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Yeah, sure, it’s always the same story:
- Chrome adds a shitty anti-user “feature”
- Firefox users say “no come to firefox we don’t have that!”
- 3 months pass
- Firefox adds the same “feature” because it’s the standard now!!
I’m a Firefox user myself but I really hope something new comes along that actually cares about its users
You’re saying this like Firefox is adding the shitty standard because they want to, and not because Google used their monopoly to force adoption of the shitty standard forcing Firefox to follow suit if they don’t want their users to have a broken experience.
If Google introduces a shitty standard to YouTube and Firefox doesn’t adopt it, do you honestly think users are going to care or understand and blame Google? No, they’ll get pissed because they think Firefox broke YouTube and they’ll move to Chrome.
This exact situation played out with shadow DOM, Google implemented it into YouTube while it was still a draft standard, so all non-Chrome browsers ran worse because they had to use a polyfill.
That is why we’re telling people to stop using Chromium. If they didn’t have this monopoly none of this would be possible. Mozilla has some issues as an organization, but do honestly you think the better choice is letting an advertising company decide how the web works?
Mozilla has some issues as an organization
What is that actually?
What are the issues I have with Mozilla? They’re floundering with little direction and seemingly incompetent management.
They laid off a bunch of their key engineers while they continue to increase the CEO’s compensation. They keep making half baked decisions with regards to features and marketing that don’t seem conducive to their core offering, like the Pocket integration. They completely killed PWA integration, that only works now with an extension and third party software. They retired BrowserID. They orphaned Thunderbird. There’s probably more I’m forgetting.
Thanks for explaining. I wasn’t updated with all of these. I just use their browser. And thought they are some nice company.
No for-profit is nice, but they are the lesser shit of the two choices we have. Remember that the Mozilla Corporation is a for-profit, the Mozilla Organization is a non-profit. There is a clear conflict of interest between those two entities.
I do and will continue to use their browser because it’s the only choice I have if I want to stand by my principle of supporting a free and open web.
Dude if they make youtube accessible only through Chrome we gonna have some problems.
I’d have to stop using it. I’d even go to another service like Nebula, at that point, and pay for it.
But I am not going to start running Chrome on my home computer as a daily driver.
Better archive videos now. Save your favourites and some more.
Oh man you’re not wrong. hiyaah
Guess why I don’t use the Chrome ecosystem and don’t depend on Google.
Unfortunately, you don’t have much of a choice. If a lot of websites start using this implementation, Firefox will have no choice but to implement this, otherwise a lot of websites will be broken.
I have a choice of not using these sites nor enabling antifeatures like DRM support in Firefox now or likely its libre future forks.
Sticking to free/libre has been good to me in the last 30 years. I don’t intend to change that.
The solution is not using crappy things. As simple as that.
We’re the minority, if this gets implemented it’s endgame. Try convincing the billions of people who already don’t care enough to use Firefox to protect their privacy to now stop using Chrome because it’s killing the open web. Now tell them to stop using services they care about because DRM is bad.
At this point our only real hope is the EU decides to forcibly stop this, but I’m not holding my breath.
It’s endgame for old WWW. Well, maybe Gemini will have its market glory moment, though commercialization is explicitly what its creators and users don’t want.
What is Gemini in this context?
This is neat, but this decidedly a niche product with very limited application. I’m an old hat and I can’t see the inherent value proposition in this, why is this better than static pages with hyperlinks? That doesn’t and frankly shouldn’t require a whole new protocol and client. That’s what HTTP and HTML were originally built for.
