I should begin by mentioning that I am (was) a moderator of three subreddits: one large subreddit, one NSFW subreddit and a medical-related subreddit. After u/spez’s calamitous AMA, I joined Lemmy and haven’t looked back. I am really enjoying the Lemmy/KBin vibe. It is very much an alpha (almost beta) product and the ad free, corporate free, decentralized nature of the fediverse has a thrill of its own.
Over the past couple of months, Reddit has done everything it can to show its moderators that they are low-value and easily replaceable. They’ve done this by removing technical tools, killing off third party applications, crippling API changes and jaw-droppingly bad public relations. Heavily used products like /r/toolbox are no longer being actively developed. When Reddit API implements a breaking, non-backwards compatible change, that tool will also die.
Yet the moderators of Reddit continue to moderate. They stay and help Reddit build Reddit. They continue to work for free; to allow Reddit to make money off of their work despite being abused. When I see things like the comment section on this post, I no longer feel sorry for the Reddit moderators still on the site. I see them as a sad, sorry group who cling to the false hope of a corporate turnaround. They could leave Reddit. They should leave Reddit.
These moderators are in an abusive relationship with Reddit, Inc. I might understand the argument, “we built this community, we can’t just abandon it”. But would you give the same advice to someone else in an abusive relationship? I get that the analogy between the mods and the corp is an imperfect one, yet it is similar enough to be valid, in my opinion.
Moderating is really hard. It is hard and thankless and never-ending. Finding good moderators who can handle the marathon nature of the gig is incredibly difficult. If Reddit moderators were to delete their moderating bots, downgrade their automod “code” and dial back their modding efforts to 5 min/week or less, it would materially hurt Reddit as a product.
The sunk-cost fallacy is a real thing. If the Reddit mods understood this, they’d take their talents elsewhere. But as long as they continue to help Reddit build Reddit, one shouldn’t feel sorry for them.
They could leave. I did and I’ve never been happier.
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The abusive relationship is with Reddit, not the community they moderate. A more accurate analogy is tolerating the abusive person because you don’t want to completely lost contact with many other people you care about just because of that one guy who they’re still friend with. The answer then become less clear cut than just cut off the toxic person. It becomes a question of when the abusive person becomes toxic enough that even the prospect of keeping in touch with other people you care about isn’t worth it any more. That is going to be different for everyone and there’s no right answer as it completely depends on the person. It is still possible that someone misjudge and they’d be better off leaving earlier, but what that earlier point is still has to be decided first according to their own circumstances.
To illustrate my point. Some people believe it’s the right thing to do to leave Reddit much earlier than this year, such as when they let /r/the_donald operated freely. In this case here because you decided to stay until 1-2 months ago, you are also part of the problem that “stayed and helped Reddit build Reddit”.
I think this post simplified the situation in a way that misrepresented the motivation of some moderators.
A more accurate analogy is tolerating the abusive person because you don’t want to completely lost contact with many other people you care about
Thing is: Communities also can leave. If the community cares about its mods in the same way the mods care about the community, a move toward an alterantive medium is not a problem.
Of course that’s not how it is. The communities at large to a good part don’t give a shit about the people who moderate. The relationship is often entirely one sided. A community which cares, leaves with the mods. A community which doesn’t give a fuck, stays.
I shut down the my subreddit for old memes on Reddit and moved it to Lemmy. Then it blew up on Lemmy and the old ass memes spread to the other meme subreddits. (Sorry)
This is home now.
[email protected] is better than ever over here. Although it’s still full of stale ass memes.
YOU. You’re the reason I had to endure that unending two day borefest! /jk
You want to hear something fucked up? After nearly 10 years in Reddit, one day I suddenly started receiving daily death threats and HEAVY bot spamming on this tiny little sub I was moderating. So naturally I reached out to the mod support sub for help. Then this bot/spammer started flooding my post on their sub which actually felt great—they were getting a taste of what I had been dealing with. The post ended up with well over 500 comments from this piece of shit. So instead of help me out, you know what they did? They banned me from the mod support subreddit.
I had a conversation with one of the admins who basically told me they don’t care about death threats. Furthermore, this spammer had also admitted to murdering people. Again the admin didn’t care. Till the day I left they were unable to stop this one person from creating hundreds, maybe even thousands of accounts and spamming tons of people including myself. A billion dollar company can’t even control their own product. The bots literally own Reddit. Lol. Fuck them, all of them who stayed.
Here some proof: https://imgur.com/Hofqdh8 https://imgur.com/gallery/vJhZlwX
I wonder how many of the people on lemmy that bitched about getting banned on reddit, how its an an echo-chamber and how you’re not allowed to have a different opinion there, are believers in “alternate facts,” or spread misinformation, or are otherwise culpable for bad behavior. I once got banned from /r/TwoXChromosomes because I got insultingly personal in criticizing someone for their rabid misandry. But you know what? Even if that other redditor was in the wrong, so was I for a lack of civility. I messaged the mods, explained specifically what happened, what rule I broke, my intention to refrain from doing that in the future, etc. And I was unbanned. One person’s “echo chamber” is 10,000 people’s enjoyable space.
In the last month or two before the Great Migration, I started noticing a hard right shift all over reddit that seemed extremely suspicious. Comments expressing anti-LGBTQ+ sentiments and other so-called “social conservative”/regressive comments getting tons of upvotes. On a scale I had never seen before with brigading etc. They’d eventually get downvoted into oblivion but what the hell was going on, I have no idea.
Elections are coming up. I remember the time around 2016. Nothing new under the sun.
They don’t even require email validation. I made dozens of burner accounts with the same email over the years. It’s wild. They are like actively against controlling the bots. It’s like Twitter, the bots inflate the numbers so they don’t want to go after them.
I want revenge.
I suggest you make a bot for that.
It crossed my mind. I know I could write some insidious code. Ultimately I don’t have time for that nonsense.
There was this guy, I think he called himself “killallwomen” with changing numbers. I received a death threat followed up by pictures of animal porn and gore. I actually didn’t care that much. I understand your concerns and nobody should have to deal with this kind of shit. But I got so many death threats on Reddit over the years. Death threats from nazis, death threats from conspiracy theorists, death threats from CCP slaves, death threats from russian bots, death threats from trumpian cultists, death threats from a guy who thought I want to punch him for some reason, death threats from incels, OH THE INCELS! There are so many of them on Reddit.
I couldn’t care even if I wanted. But not everyone feels the same and things I might find almost funny, could disturb others. So this killallwomen guy kept doing what he was doing and the counter got higher and higher. To the point he almost became a meme in some communities.
Did the admins care? Did they do anything to stop this behavior on their site? Of course they didn’t.
Oh I don’t, don’t you worry.
The admin are trash over on reddit. The CEO is trash. Lots of the mods in the big subs are trash too though.
Any of the mods that complained and protested but are still on the site are gutless and just don’t want to lose their mod power.
Honestly I stopped feeling bad for mods as soon as I saw a majority of them fold like a soggy napkin upon the first threat from the admins saying they’d remove mods who keep their subs private.
If I were a mod I would have kept it private until Reddit removed me. If all mods actually did that, Reddit would have been in big trouble since they’d effectively have to find new mods all at once for the entire site. Instead, most mods basically did Reddit a favor and lessened the impact substantially. Thanks mods!
I also don’t feel bad for most Reddit users. Way too many of them were too ignorant to even understand what the protests were about. And a majority of them were yelling at mods to reopen and saying the protest was stupid just because they were okay with using the official mobile app
Unbelievable all around honestly. The entire thing was fucking embarrassing. We had one actual chance to win and everyone blew it.
I know it sounds pretentious as hell, but the majority of people are just idiots that can’t be bothered to learn and educate themselves on anything…
Again, sounding pretentious and the ones smart enough to see the reddit bullshit and figure out lemmy are here now!
I sound like a prick, but it do!
You’re not a prick or pretentious or doing anything wrong. Part of the propaganda matrix is to shame people into not checking or calling each other out for not having basic knowledge they should have. It’s how they keep people uneducated
This is just the start. Once Reddit IPOs and we hear how many tens of millions spez made off the backs of mods and power users, more will start to question why they are doing unpaid labor just to make spez rich. There is a fundamental problem with trying to make bank on volunteer labor, and we’re just starting to see it begin.
Same here.
After the infamous AMA, I made a post in my subreddit basically saying “peace out, I’m off to Lemmy. Good luck, everyone.” Lucky for them, I’d set up a pretty robust automoderator over the years so that’s still taking care of the majority of the moderating tasks I’d imagine.
I visited that post today and saw over 500 comments, each one by a mod and each one of them angry. Why they’re still there, I have no idea.
Most won’t even consider changing their browsing habits due to the trouble involved in acclimating to anything new. There’s inertia.
I look at Reddit from time to time to check on the state etc but I deleted my account / comments etc … must say It is hard to break year long habits
I ended up deleting the reddit app from my phone homescreen and replaced it with Memmy. Once I subbed to a bunch of communities I’m interested in, I barely even notice I’m not on reddit anymore. I just go on, scroll and interact for about 20 minutes, and then I’m done.
I guess If you were used to using reddit for hours a day then it might be hard to find the same amount of content, but then also, maybe reddit is sending you a message to pick up a new hobby. I’ve gotten back into reading, and loving it.
Yet the moderators of Reddit continue to moderate. They stay and help Reddit build Reddit. They continue to work for free; to allow Reddit to make money off of their work despite being abused.
I already had a very low opinion of unpaid internet janitors, but this made me think even less of them lol.
Enough sense to be angry but not enough to leave
This was all of us on the fediverse for the past 15 years.
Your argument is strange, since I definitely feel bad for people in abusive relationships and have understanding for how difficult it might be to leave one.
Come on, we are stretching the analogy here. Reddit isn’t beating them. Reddit isn’t isolating them. Reddit isn’t going to explode in anger if they find out you’re flirting with another social media website.
It’s a website. I was on there for 15 years and I left with a snap of a finger. It’s not that serious.
And everyone is exactly like you? Some people feel attached to it for any kind of reasons and when someone sunk countless hours in something, I have no troubles understanding why it might be difficult to leave. Especially since for some communities there are no alternatives. Why not be a bit more emphatic?
Mods on Reddit are power hungry basement dwellers. I’m glad you got out. They do nothing but stifle conversations and turn the cesspool that is reddit into more and more of an echo chamber. I’ve had so many accounts banned for simply trying to have a conversation that didn’t fit the “narrative”. It’s shocking how much so little power goes to people’s heads.
I once got banned from some random sub for commenting in r/conservative. I responded to the mods like “tf? I’m a leftist, I’m debating with the conservatives” and got a response from the mod saying “yeah whatever you’re wasting your time and you sound like an idiot. Bye.”
I got banned from r/news for “homophobia” because I said kindergarteners needed to know where adults should not be touching them. I’m still baffled by that one.
I hope it’s a matter of time. I’m starting to feel more communities are becoming more and more populated and it’s by now just starting to top reddit.
Edit: thinking about it, if people still like it on reddit than, whatever anyone wants. I’ve got a feeling the quality is better here, so I don’t think I’d mind it staying a bit lesss mega-big.
