Pregnant people in New York would have 40 hours of paid leave to attend prenatal medical appointments under a new proposal by Gov. Kathy Hochul after the state’s legislative session kicked off this week.
The Democrat’s plan to expand the state’s paid family leave policy, which would need to be approved by the state Legislature, aims to expand access to high-quality prenatal care and prevent maternal and infant deaths in New York, an issue that especially affects low-income and minority communities.
The U.S. infant mortality rate, a measure of how many babies die before they reach their first birthday, is worse than other high-income countries, which experts have attributed to poverty, inadequate prenatal care and other possibilities. The U.S. rate rose 3% in 2022 — the largest increase in two decades, according to a 2023 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
I really wish someday there would be more a push for paid leave for EVERYONE.
I do not begrudge parents paid parental leave and think it should be offered. But it would be nice if someone were to consider doing something, anything for the rest of us. Instead, we only get the extra work of picking up the slack.
This is leave to attend prenatal medical appointments, not vacation time. They don’t schedule those for funsies, it’s to see if you or your fetus might die.
Like, yes, everyone deserves more time off. At the same time, prenatal healthcare in the US is inaccessible for many and it has lifelong or even deadly consequences. Framing this as a “time off” issue instead of an “able to afford access to medical care” issue is missing what’s causing the need for this in the first place.
Do you think pregnant people are the only ones that need to go to the doctor? They could still make it medical only and apply to everyone.
And medical care or vacation, you think the rest of us don’t have to pick up the slack just the same?
The fact is, the US is doing it wrong. Other countries have more generous family leave, but it is a government benefit, not employer-paid. That often lets employers hire temporary replacements regather than be short staffed. Also, they offer ample vacation benefits so everyone else isn’t burnt out.
Do you not understand that pregnancy is a high risk condition (even outside high risk pregnancies, you are already more medically fragile just from pregnancy)?
Why are so you insistent that everyone has to benefit from policies that are aimed at fixing infant and maternal death rates in the US, which I will emphasize again are comparable to developing nations and not industrialized nations?
Why are you crying about “picking up slack” when pregnant people are literally dying due to lack of access to prenatal appointments? I’m sorry but wake the fuck up. This is not a vacation. It’s not a visit to the dentist. If you think it’s more important to make sure everyone is treated the same than it is to address people and infants dying in childbirth then you have your head screwed on backwards.
Do you think pregnancy is the only high-risk condition there is? Screw people with diabetes, cancer, multiple sclerosis, ALS, lupus, Crohn’s disease, schizophrenia, and a litany of other health problems, I guess.
Why are we only worried about infant and maternal deaths and not all deaths?
People are literally dying of cancer and other diseases and don’t get paid time off, either. I never said it was a vacation. And people need more healthcare than just going to the dentist.
Why is it a choice? If everyone gets medical leave, does this not address the issue for women and children as well? Where is this false dichotomy coming from?
Sorry I think equal pay for equal work is such a good concept. Since I am expected to do more work, perhaps men and the childfree should be paid more.
Just say you’re fine with pregnant people and infants dying if you don’t get something out of it and go.
If you don’t understand why this is necessary even if it doesn’t personally benefit you there’s nothing I can do to explain it further. Goodbye.
What a strawman. I say to prevent the deaths of more people, you claim that means I want women and infants to die.
Turnabout is fair play: Just say you’re fine with everyone else dying so long as you get what you want.
For many people in North America (but admittedly not all), pregnancy is a choice. If I choose to get elective surgery, should I not also be entitled to time off for the medical appointments?
I never wanted kids but if I could get 40 hours off for having one I would have like 10. /s
Seriously, it’s just 40 hours that most women will use once or twice in their lives and they get it for doing something exhausting, very painful and pretty dangerous. On top of that as society you actually need at least some women to do it. Are people really jealous about 40 hours of leave sprinkled on top of the shit experience that pregnancy is? That’s some new levels of egoism…
There are a ton of exhausting, painful, and dangerous things requiring medical appointments that aren’t pregnancy. All of them should get paid leave. That’s all I mean 😅
Providing incentives to have children, if the society wants to encourage that goal, is another thing entirely. I hadn’t really considered that!
Actually most conditions that are as debilitating as pregnancy would qualify you for sick leave or (if prolongled) disability. At least where I live. I understand sick leave is another issue in USA but denying care to pregnant women doesn’t really solve anything here. In this case they are pretty much saying that even though pregnancy is not a sickness it shout still get people some limited protection.
Pregnancy is often not an intentional choice (nearly 50% of pregnancies in the US are unintended). It’s also something literally necessary for the continuation of society, unlike a tummy tuck.
Also, you don’t take 9 months to recover from elective surgery unless something went wrong. Pregnant people need more appointments for longer than people getting elective surgery, sometimes weekly if the pregnancy becomes high risk.
You’re also already entitled to time off from surgery under the FMLA. This bill EDIT: proposal is for paid time off to go to prenatal appointments. This is because prenatal care in the US is expensive AF, inaccessible to many, and is ultimately a large contributing factor in the US’ maternal and infant mortality rate being far above that of other industrialized nations.
Again, this is not paid time off to sit at home and play video games. This is going to the doctor to make sure you or the fetus don’t die. When people can’t go to these appointments they have miscarriages or die.
Not everything is about giving everyone exactly the same thing so that it feels fair. Sometimes some people need things you don’t.
I had no idea the number was still so high (36% according to this article)! That’ll teach me to comment without research.
So people will call in to the office “I’m pregnant today.” Wish people were more honest but the fakers will ruin it for everyone, and to keep them honest would destroy all patient privacy rights. I agree with the premise of the bill idea, but just sayin’.
That’s not how paid medical leave works. Companies can require you to provide evidence that you saw a doctor, in the form of a note. They can’t require anything more detailed than a doctor confirming they saw you on x date at x time, but you’re not going to be able to fake this without impersonating a doctor.
A lot of employers do exactly that.
Yes you are. Having a job doesn’t mean you have no existence outside of work. Congrats on somehow still sounding like a snark selfish person by JAQing
Sorry! I didn’t mean to come off as a jerk :(
I meant that parents getting paid leave for what I consider to be a choice while non-parents making a similar choice not getting time off seems unfair to me. I’m totally in favor of time off for medical stuff, elective or not!
As someone who chose not to have kids, I still support special PTO and medical leave for people who decide to have kids.
The population is aging where I live, and I would like to incentivize people to make future tax payers and future people that I can pay to wipe my ass when I’m old.
The next generation is an investment in my future wellbeing even if I didn’t have kids.
Do you really think it is 40 hours of leave for prenatal appointments, or even long parental leave that is stopping people from having kids? No, it’s expensive childcare, unaffordable healthcare, low wages, low time off generally, as well as a garbage world that seems to be circling the drain due to climate change and pollution. My workplace actually does already offer 40 hours for prenatal care along with 12 weeks paid leave after birth, and I still have zero intention of having kids. I don’t make enough money anyway, and even then, I don’t want them to have to live in a climate change hellscape.
And I personally think we are overpopulated and declining population would be good. How cruel to think people should have kids just so those kids can wipe our ass in the future. In fact, when the times comes that I can’t wipe my ass, I hope we have options, because I would choose euthanasia.
Again, that is not to speak against paid parental leave. But everybody gets sick. Everybody gets burned out. Have time for everybody.
It’s not for encouraging people to have kids.
It’s for the people already pregnant to not fucking die or have a miscarriage due to being unable to go to necessary regular prenatal checkups.
I was responding to someone that said “I would like to incentivize people to make future tax payers” so yes, some people think this is to encourage people to have kids.
We make it unnecessarily difficult to have children, we don’t give them sufficient opportunity to survive and grow into their potential, but the long term population trend is looking grim.
Yes, let’s start removing the obstacles that block having children. Yes, let’s put some effort into helping them survive. Yes. Let’s give their parents a way to have them cared for while they earn a living. Yes, let’s give them a better education to grow into their potential. Yes, let’s set up the safety nets so a treatable Illness doesn’t make them fall out of society and splatter onto the rocks
OK.
In reality, this is to prevent pregnant people and infants from dying.
Ok, so I am not allowed to respond to other people?
And why can’t we help all people, including pregnant people and infants?
Sure, there are a lot of things that discourage people from having kids. This is only one factor but let’s start with one factor: I’ll also support the next.
I’ve already had my kids, not as many as I wanted due to starting late, but I love them like crazy. I also see the long term trend of population decline and am very concerned about society’s future. I’m all for giving future parents benefits that I never had, future children more chances to survive and grow into their potential
The point is, it won’t move the needle, and lots of us don’t think the merely should move up. Continued population grown is what concerns me, which is what is actually happening (no decline). We can’t just keep moving earth overshoot day up.
You need to take a closer look at the long term population data. Sure, some of places that can least afford it continue to grow unsustainably, but essentially all developed countries have a birth rate below replacement levels. We’re still growing because previous generations are still with us, but as the bubble passes, we’re all on track for serious declines, if nothing changes. I’m all for making changes now while they’re insignificant.
Note the US is also on this track for sudden population decline but is still growing due to immigration. For all you who want to restrict immigration more, this is our future, this is what will keep us from declining like most of Europe and Asia. Immigration also should be encouraged
Population decline is now a similar place that climate change was in the 1970’s. We know what’s going on and it’s not too serious yet, but some of us are sounding an alarm. do we have the foresight to address it while it’s easy or are we going to wait until it’s critical/irreversible?
We literally had half the number of people on this planet 50 years ago. We had one quarter less than 100 years ago. The problem is overshoot, not too few people now. Serious decline is what we need.
malthusianism is next to eugenics
I disagree. You honestly think we can keep growing to eternity?
Agreed, they always have to carve out this stuff for deserving people, and it’s just making things more complicated and divisive.
This mindset of absolutely making sure nobody could possibly abuse something is really terrible policy.
I vote every one gets 200 hours of paid leave a year, with no questions asked unless it’s sudden. (Then some brief vague questions about why.)
Perhaps those 40 hours should be available to anyone who needs doctors’ appointments during the workday. Which is when doctors’ offices are open, after all. You could go get a mammogram or prostate exam instead of an ultrasound. You could pee in a cup for entirely different reasons than testing for preeclampsia.You could get an IUD or a vasectomy or abortion (*not available in all states) so you won’t need the prenatal care. You could get swabbed for strep throat and get antibiotics, or get vaccinated to prevent spreading viruses.
Maybe we could stretch it to eye exams and dental work, even though they are otherwise excluded from “medical” care.
While we’re at it, nonsmokers should have a place to go (on the opposite side of the building from the smoke-break area) for 10 minutes of deeply breathing fresh air.
In Spain, which is way way more progressive than US, women get unlimited paid leave during pregnancy (as in you can go to as many medical appointments as you want, there’s no cap) and normal appointments are still not covered. My guess is that covering all of the appointments would mean quite a big hit for the economy while the amount of times a woman will get pregnant is very limited and will not cause such issues.
Also, if you need to get out to breath the air quality at your workplace doesn’t meet the legal requirements and should be fixed.
On that second item, my point was about smokers getting smoke breaks, and how for fairness nonsmokers should get equal breaks. It wasn’t about any lack of clean air in the office. But if the nonsmokers had to go where the smokers are smoking it would be deleterious to their health. If you think about it, part of the pleasure of smoking is those long slow draughts, but so much better if it’s draughts of fresh air. Very zen.
That makes sense. I actually don’t know what the law says about smoke breaks. I know I can have 5 minute brake every hour and one 15 minute break per day on top of lunch break. Of course my workplace is not that strict but that’s what the law says. I don’t know if smokers get more according to the law or they’re supposed to use the 5 minute breaks.
I think this is viable if we do it with taxes.
It’s non-viable if you expect all businesses to provide it for their employees because most businesses literally cannot afford it.
If those businesses can’t afford it, they only exist because of exploitation. Maybe those businesses should fail.
Not true. I can tell you’ve never run a business.
Not true. I can tell you weren’t paying attention in your economics or history studies.
How are food trucks supposed to stay in business while paying employees who aren’t even working?
I made that exact point in another post. Most countries have paid family leave and some sick leave as a government benefit, which both allows broader benefits, and can even allow businesses to hire temporary help. They also mandate lots of leave generally, so the remaining employees are not burnt out with extra work and little time off.