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One of the admins at lemmy.blahaj.zone asked us to purge a community and all of
its users because they thought it was full of child sexual abuse material, aka
CSAM, fka kiddy porn. We assured them that we had checked this comm thoroughly
and we were satisfied that all of the models on it were of age. The admin then
demanded we purge the comm because they mistook it for CSAM, and claimed that
the entire point of the community was to make people think it was CSAM. We
vehemently disagreed that that was in fact the point of the community, but they
decided to defederate from us anyway. That is of course their choice, but we
will not purge our communities or users because someone else makes a mistake of
fact, and then lays the responsibility for their mistake at our feet. If someone
made a community intended to fool people into thinking it was kiddy porn, that
would be a real problem. If someone of age goes online and pretends – not
roleplays, but pretends with intent to deceive – to be a child and makes porn,
that is a real problem. Nobody here is doing that. One of the reasons we run our
instance the way that we do is that we want it to be inclusive. We don’t body
shame, and we believe that all adults have a right to sexual expression. That
means no adult on our instance is too thin, fat, bald, masculine, old, young,
cis, gay, etc., to be sexy, and that includes adults that look younger than some
people think they should. Everyone has a right to lust and to be lusted after.
There’s no way to draw a line that says “you can’t like adult people that look
like X” without crossing a line that we will not cross. EDIT: OK, closing this
post to new comments. Everything that needs saying has been said. Link to my
convo with the blahaj admin here [https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/683520].
I think since blahaj has a lot of LGBT+ people and since right‐wingers has already been blaming the LGBT+ community for pedophilia, they didn’t want any more risk of the media start accusing the blahaj instance of endorsing pedophilia, so they had to act pre-emptively and defederate. I don’t really think it’s anyone’s fault, it’s just that in today’s political climate, any accusation against a group of people, even if it’s false, would end up inspiring mobs to target that group of people. I think the admins of blahaj just doesn’t want LGBT+ people get be associated with peodophiles and potentially become victims of a witchhunt against LGBT+ people.
Sounds a little like letting terrorists dictate how you live.
Also again, to reiterate, there is no pedo content on that community.
I mean, welcome to being queer. My sister basically has to live like that or otherwise she gets arrested or possibly murdered. The terrorist more or less do dictate her life.
Like I understand the frustration of being defederated, especially over an accusation as heavy as this. But I can’t blame the bahaj team either for trying to be extra careful of making sure their community doesn’t become a target for anyone trying to demonize them. I believe you when you say the content is legal, but it’s not going to make a difference when someone like libsoftiktok screen cap adorableporn from the blajah instance and try to twist it into making them to be pedophiles. Also unless the OP makes it clear, it’s not like the pictures themselves can vouche for their age.
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I’m not convinced de-federating from a porn instance does any of that unfortunately.
That was part of what I felt they’re doing, but to me the community on lemmynsfw also bothered me and I blocked it. There’s definitely something wrong and nefarious about a community who resides in legal territory but relies on an implication. It’s the same as a community of Nazis existing but using dog whistle wording to avoid anyone noticing. I’m not going to say it’s illegal, but I’m also not in support of it and I understand Blahaj doing what they did.
Whats the implication you’re referring to? I’m not completely familiar with lemmynsfw so if its something patently obvious you’ll have to forgive me for not knowing already.
Sorry, I should have been more specific in my comment. Lemmynsfw has tons of communities dedicated to women with small boobs and small/petite women. This is great, they have gorgeous bodies and they should be appreciated too! However, Lemmynsfw has a community called “fauxbait” which is… obviously not ok. I was on Reddit well before 2010, but anyone on there from that era remembers the controversy that the “jailbait” subreddit caused. In fact, to say it was a controversy is understating it… anyways, fauxbait on lemmtnsfw specifically in its sidebar says “a community dedicated to women who look underage but aren’t.” Which to me is a MASSIVE red flag. This consists of lots of porn stars and models that are petite, small, “cute” and generally flat. Again, these women should have places to post their bodies and to feel beautiful and wanted for them, however places that sexualize them for appearing underage while skirting that “legality” are not things that should be allowed. Specifically because it brings unwanted negative attention to Lemmy, provides governments and companies reasons to disallow access to Lemmy, and over all provides less desirable people with a place they feel is accepting of their views.
So, the implication is “they’re almost jailbait while legally not being such.” Which is definitely a thing. They can, I guess, have an instance where that’s allowed since it isn’t “technically” illegal but is highly immoral and questionably unethical. However, in this case all I’m saying is that I can see why Blahaj defederated from it.
I was actually against blahajzone before reading this, it does make me think twice about it as I have heard about stuff like that on lemmynsfw (not that I’ve ever been there myself mind you). I recognize that people are entitled to their own fetishes as long as it’s between consenting adults, but stuff like fauxbait and related fetishes always seem suspect, it’s definitely right on the border of something. Like, yea, you’re free to get sexually excited by whatever you want, but that looks an awful lot like… something else. However, I recognize that most people into that stuff probably aren’t actual pedophiles, just like people into other questionable fetishes (rapekink, freeuse, raceplay, etc) may not ever engage in anything illegal, but fauxbait & others sure does look like… something else.
That seems like one community amongst many, not the instance as a whole. Though, admittedly (as long as they’re aware of it) allowing it is an implication of support.
It’s shown up multiple times on the trending and hit page, so I imagine they’re aware of it. The excuse of it being one community amongst many though is something that Blahaj has the ability to not support. There’s a lot of instances too where we could say it’s “one bad things amongst many good things” but that doesn’t make it ok…
You feeling grody about it doesn’t make it not ok either, though…
I mean, I guess you could be ok with it if you’re a pedo. Shit like this caused massive controversy for Reddit in the beginning, and it only leads to others with worse outlooks feeling safe here. I don’t know if you were around on Reddit during the r/thedonald period but that sub bred nothing but hate that quickly found a home to radicalize on the platform. Same went with Jailbait. It spawned spacedicks and other horrendous subs.
Also, as an instance dedicated to LGBT+ what if another instance was dedicated to hatred towards LGBT+? Should Blahaj continue to federate with them? What if I open a community dedicated to “communicating about how to kill a certain group?” It’s not illegal. Freedom of speech is important after all, but maybe at some point people stop just talking about something and start acting.
While the slippery slope argument can be applied to anything at the end of the day it’s really down to something super simple. This is one instance choosing to defederate from another. That’s their choice.
Excuse me but the Nazis were the ones who burned books on sex, that argument makes absolutely no sense
For those who have no idea what you are talking about.
Nazis rifling through books about sex and gender May 6 1933:
which were disposed of thusly May 11, 1933:
That’s kind of a ridiculous take i think. It’s more likely that one single person has too much power and uses it to enforce their morality on others. Tale as old as time.
Innocent trans person: gets wrongly accused of pedophilia by disingenuous lying scumbag fascists as part of some stupid political culture war.
Same trans person: wrongly accuses someone else of pedophilia to appease disingenuous lying scumbag fascists as part of some stupid political culture war.
Trans rights are human rights. At the same time I think that every adult has the fundamental right to sexual self-expression, alone or among consenting adult partners. The definition and very nature of “kink” means that a person finds something erotic that other people find mundane, strange or even gross (like feet, bondage, roleplay, nylon, furry, piss play, adult diapers, etc). “Sex-positivity” means being tolerant with the fact that different people get turned on by different things, and that basically anything goes between consenting adults who are following whatever laws that happen to apply to them. Nobody has to like kink, but people ought to accept that kink is a valid form of consensual adult sexuality.
At this point, the facts seem to suggest the the lemmynsfw community in question was made up of consenting adults. And so, taking the misdirected heat off of your community by wrongly directing it at someone else’s community is indefensible to me. Nobody is being protected when false accusations fly freely and people start shoving others under the bus for political convenience.
I think the blahajzone made the wrong call here, and lemmynsfw deserve credit for sticking up for sex-positivity amongst consenting adults, especially under pressure.
Yeah no. “Needs to be purged” is not the language you’d use if you want to head off some sort of accusation. That’s just straight up personal hatred.
The purging is in reference to removing the local copies on *their *instance. Federation creates a local copy of content visited by users as a cache that is directly interated with, and then any local comments, etc. are sent out after that.
This is why posts and comments will stick around and can be interacted with still after instances defederate. Updates after defederation simply don’t make it back to the original instance because that connection no longer exists, but the local cahced copy does.