Yup. I argued to a Russian troll before that the “similar culture” is not good reason to violate national sovereignty. Like, UK could not forcefully retake New York simply because New York once belonged to the UK and both speak English. The troll responded that if the people want to join another richer country, then just let that happen. Which is a farcical argument, even for a Russian soaked in Putin’s propaganda, that the US is ten times richer than the UK, and of course New York would wish to remain with the former, if economy is the arbitrator on where one should side with. It did not also occur to the troll that he/she should apply the same logic to Ukraine as to why they want to align with the EU/West. Because the West the way richer and even ordinary Russians know it.
Sorry Vlady, the West could afford a bigger wedding ring.
The people in Donbas have spoken Russian and been considered an ethnic minority in Ukraine since the USSR broke up. The people of Donbas started a civil war in response to government discrimination against their minority. If the people of Donbas are through with being a part of Ukraine, then they absolutely should have the right to secede and either be independent or join with Russia.
Unfortunately we don’t live in a world where any minority group has the sovereignty to actually make that decision fairly and democratically, which is why instead of having a vote they had eight years of war followed by being annexed and two more years and counting of much more intense warfare.
I have said this before, the issue of political and economic alignment among Ukrainians, and the separatist conflict on Eastern Ukraine is an internal one. And there is no evidence of persecution of Russia-speakers. Much of the separatist sentiment had been stoked, more than likely by Kremlin. And Zelensky is a Russian-speaking Ukrainian Jew; meanwhile the Ukrainian defense chief, Oleksandr Syrsky, is a Russian himself who have come to call Ukraine his home. Therefore, it doesn’t make sense to accuse Ukraine as Nazis or Russophobe.
With all that said, the supposed systemic persecution of Russian-speakers is made up, and the divide between Russian and Ukrainian-speakers on whether to align with the West or Russia is internal issue that does not justify invading another sovereign country. I always make the analogy that it is like the Republic of Ireland invading Northern Ireland, which the latter is legally part of UK, after making the justification to defend Catholics (and the Irish government did draw up a plan for an invasion but they did not go ahead because they know it’s illegal). Or Turkey invading the entirety of Cyprus after already occupying the northern part. Invading another country which everyone knows are flimsy pretexts is illegal.
Not to justify any bigotry, but the key point here is whether or not it’s systemic, which the UN reported on one of the links I presented. The UN report stated there are prejudices on individual basis, which they do not nor anyone should condone, but there is no Ukrainian state-sponsored discrimination on Russian-speakers.
You’re just really trying to shoe-horn obvious Kremlin propaganda.
Right, and there is no state sponsored discrimination of minorities in america. Go ahead and show me a law that explicitly states it.
Being Jewish or Russian in Ukraine is the same as living in New York and being from New Jersey. It has fuckall to do with racism or how people are treated in different regions.
Right, and there is no state sponsored discrimination of minorities in america. Go ahead and show me a law that explicitly states it.
We’re not in 1950s American and pretty sure there isn’t one. And since you insist there is one at present and brought it up, you should present it. The burden of proof is on you.
Wanting to join a state power that is infamously non-democratic, faking and manipulating elections and foreign affairs, is inherently a dead give-away that you are a pawn, just like arguing for it.
Yup. I argued to a Russian troll before that the “similar culture” is not good reason to violate national sovereignty. Like, UK could not forcefully retake New York simply because New York once belonged to the UK and both speak English. The troll responded that if the people want to join another richer country, then just let that happen. Which is a farcical argument, even for a Russian soaked in Putin’s propaganda, that the US is ten times richer than the UK, and of course New York would wish to remain with the former, if economy is the arbitrator on where one should side with. It did not also occur to the troll that he/she should apply the same logic to Ukraine as to why they want to align with the EU/West. Because the West the way richer and even ordinary Russians know it.
Sorry Vlady, the West could afford a bigger wedding ring.
hides his plans to “liberate” the Anglosphere and make them states
I don’t think you understood their argument.
The people in Donbas have spoken Russian and been considered an ethnic minority in Ukraine since the USSR broke up. The people of Donbas started a civil war in response to government discrimination against their minority. If the people of Donbas are through with being a part of Ukraine, then they absolutely should have the right to secede and either be independent or join with Russia.
Unfortunately we don’t live in a world where any minority group has the sovereignty to actually make that decision fairly and democratically, which is why instead of having a vote they had eight years of war followed by being annexed and two more years and counting of much more intense warfare.
I have said this before, the issue of political and economic alignment among Ukrainians, and the separatist conflict on Eastern Ukraine is an internal one. And there is no evidence of persecution of Russia-speakers. Much of the separatist sentiment had been stoked, more than likely by Kremlin. And Zelensky is a Russian-speaking Ukrainian Jew; meanwhile the Ukrainian defense chief, Oleksandr Syrsky, is a Russian himself who have come to call Ukraine his home. Therefore, it doesn’t make sense to accuse Ukraine as Nazis or Russophobe.
With all that said, the supposed systemic persecution of Russian-speakers is made up, and the divide between Russian and Ukrainian-speakers on whether to align with the West or Russia is internal issue that does not justify invading another sovereign country. I always make the analogy that it is like the Republic of Ireland invading Northern Ireland, which the latter is legally part of UK, after making the justification to defend Catholics (and the Irish government did draw up a plan for an invasion but they did not go ahead because they know it’s illegal). Or Turkey invading the entirety of Cyprus after already occupying the northern part. Invading another country which everyone knows are flimsy pretexts is illegal.
And america has no racism because we had a black president. Your logic sounds pretty but falls apart once you start trying replacement variables.
Not to justify any bigotry, but the key point here is whether or not it’s systemic, which the UN reported on one of the links I presented. The UN report stated there are prejudices on individual basis, which they do not nor anyone should condone, but there is no Ukrainian state-sponsored discrimination on Russian-speakers.
You’re just really trying to shoe-horn obvious Kremlin propaganda.
Right, and there is no state sponsored discrimination of minorities in america. Go ahead and show me a law that explicitly states it.
Being Jewish or Russian in Ukraine is the same as living in New York and being from New Jersey. It has fuckall to do with racism or how people are treated in different regions.
We’re not in 1950s American and pretty sure there isn’t one. And since you insist there is one at present and brought it up, you should present it. The burden of proof is on you.
Wanting to join a state power that is infamously non-democratic, faking and manipulating elections and foreign affairs, is inherently a dead give-away that you are a pawn, just like arguing for it.
I vaguely recall a certain whisky-producing region having some sort of referendum at one point. Must have dreamt it, sorry.
The Whiskey Rebellion was a response to taxation that unfairly targeted the rural poor. George Washington crushed it.
six foot ten weighs a fucking ton
The South is not allowed to secede.
Nor is Scotland, if that’s what you’re referring to.
Scotland was given the choice to secede, they chose not to
I imagine they might vote differently now, lmao.
You’d be surprised